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 Post subject: Re: Things You'd Like to See in TOB
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:15 pm 
XTREME METAL ROCKER PUNK CHICK WITH ULTRA SURFBOARD

Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:49 am
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Reaper004 wrote:
Creepin wrote:
Reaper004 wrote:
Begins With: Imoen: (...)

Yeah, cool stuff! It's as good now as it was when I saw it ingame 6 years ago. I'm really looking forward to some spicy cameos like that you mentioned in ToB part 8-)

Back to the topic: ok, you just proved that there really are some hints of Imoen being interested in other girls to some degree at least. Obviously it's not in mod by magic, but by deliberate decision of mod's author, so this dialogues along with all other mod's content are integral facets that forms whole Imoen's personality that we all know and love.
And now you asking the mod to be castrated, author's ideas to be twisted & players to be deprived of a part of mod's content why again?

P.S. Just came to my mind how perfectly this is inline with Chloe NPC mod, I always liked how Chloe romance Imoen if turned down by Charname ;)


Yes, because adding an option during installation to disable that one piece of dialogue is castration. Read my posts before you reply, idiot.

My point is, if a PC is Male and Romancing Imoen, why have her be a lesbian? Is she heterosexual when a Female PC Romances Her?


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Whoa there, I was trying so hard to be polite with some random religious fanatic swinging around with his beliefs and that's what I get in return?


There is no reason to start throwing insults at people you don't even know. Consider this your first and only warning, both of you.

For everyone else, if you want to start a "Things you'd like to debate re: the Imoen mod" thread, feel free. This thread is here for the purpose of assisting in development.

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 Post subject: Re: Imoen's Sexuality
PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:34 am 
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I think the dialog in question comes down to a completely different issue: Imoen's sexuality, and how the mod handles it.

I'm going to state one thing right at the beginning, to avoid any gripes about it: canonically, Imoen is a lesbian.

What? Why? When? How!?

You remember that god-awful book that they let that guy publish for BG:SOA and TOB? That's officially licensed material, even if it sucks complete ass and never should have seen the light of day (and Lord Ernie, shame on you for giving it to me). In it, Imoen's gay.

But the debate comes in that, also canonically in that book, Minsc has hair, you can get it on with Bodhi, and Phaere is such a soft hearted romantic that she can't kill her human lesbian lover when the lover betrays her. Which is so very drow, don't you think? (/sarcasm) So most people prefer to think the book doesn't exist and, believe me, I'd like to, too.

Anyways.... so... Imoen's sexuality.

The question I see behind this argument is this: is Imoen the same person (with the same sexuality) in the male and female romance tracks, or is she a different person (with a different sexuality)?

If Imoen is bisexual/lesbian, but the PC is the one male character that, for some or another reason, she is fated to be with -- then I can imagine she would bring that up sooner or later. If you go date a bisexual girl in real life (assuming you're a man), sooner or later you'll hear about her ex-gf or crush on her female teacher or whatever. It's a part of the person's experience which they will, if they trust you, share with you eventually.

But, of course, Imoen is a computer-generated bunch of lines, not a "real" person. So, as a mod author, it's perfectly within my (or Mirrabbo's) power to say that when Imoen romances a male, she's 100% hetero and has never had the slightest interest in women, and when she's romancing a female, she's 100% gay and thinks all boys have cooties. Her sexuality simply *is different* depending on the romance.

By the same token, you could make an artistic decision and say that straight-Imoen is totally NOT interested in children (just as a facet of her personality), while gay-Imoen wants to adopt every orphan in Athkatla. Maybe straight-Imoen is a vegetarian but gay-Imoen's favorite food is a friend chicken. Straight-Imoen can never be corrupted; gay-Imoen can be. The list of possibilities goes on.

So the question becomes:

is there one Imoen, who stays the same regardless of who romances her? (In which case she might have THOUGHT she was a lesbian, but if she gets together with a male PC, she's technically bi, and such a dialog isn't *completely* out of place.)

Or are there two Imoen, who have various small differences in their backgrounds and personalities depending on if you're a male PC or a female PC?

I think the latter is an interesting option (it makes it very easy to distinguish the male/female romance paths!), but with one possible HUGE complication: if you have two different Imoens for male/female romance paths -- why not change her background or interests further to take into account if you're a mage or a ranger, or a human or a dwarf? Then you could add even MORE differentiation to the romance for each play through... and then the mod grows so huge that it never gets finished.

---
Oh, and P.S. I have to back Theacefes up on this one.

1) If someone misunderstands your posts or disagrees with it, that does not automatically make them an idiot, a moron, or anything else. It means they either misunderstood you or they disagree with you. Period. No need for insults.

2) Responding to someone who calls you an idiot with an accusation that they're a religious fanatic, also doesn't belong here. I personally don't see that Reaper's trying to "christianize" the mod, and I'm pretty darn sensitive about people trying to push their religion on me. So if *I* don't see it, it's probably just not there.

Annnnnnnd .... if anyone would like to start a further debate about "you suck! NO YOU SUCK!" or *any* debate about religion, that's what The Pit is for!

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 Post subject: Re: Imoen's Sexuality
PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:51 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:58 am
Posts: 94
I realize now that whoever wrote that book deserves a punch in the gut. Still, she should say something like,
player "since when were you a lesbian? When we were young you said you found some paladin who visited the keep [make up a name I guess or something TCDale] attractive."
"I guess no one could meet up to the standards of *you*, but you were my brother. When I realized no one was as perfect as you, I looked elsewhere..."

In this way, we compromise, she was straight, but there was no one like (Charname) so she goes lesbian and just kinda enjoys it. When she realizes she can have the perfect man, she takes her chance.

That dialogue should only be played on a male playthrough to make the player think this was meant for his character. Do NOT play around with 2 different Imoen's until you've finished the romance and want to work on Imoen 2.0


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 Post subject: Re: Imoen's Sexuality
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:23 pm 
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I say leave Imoen intact even for a male pc romance.

The entire premise of the mod is a bond that surmounts all other factors. If you can get past the whole siblings thing, the fact you can turn into a demon, and that most people are terrified of your parentage it seems a bit silly to suddenly draw up short because of some teen crush.

Sure if she was checking Jaheira out, borrowing Viconia's underwear, or luring Aerie out for midnight baths I might be a little concerned. Barring that I say no big deal.

The dream sequences take great care to show the love was there from an early age. Sure she might have dreamed about the half-elf but she loved the PC first and best. It was always there, it just took the seperation to reveal it.


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 Post subject: Re: Imoen's Sexuality
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:55 am 
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Agreed with mr. Corleone, above. Two versions of Imoen (one for each gender romancing her) clashes with my internal roleplayer, for one. For two, hearing her say "I thought I only wanted girls, but you seem to be the exception" actually made me go "d'awwww".

I would also like to express my pain at you not liking your b-day gift, TC. After all, it's a novel version of one of your favourite games, featuring some of your favourite characters. What's not to like? :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Imoen's Sexuality
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:28 am 
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I have to agree with Lord Ernie. The thought of 2 different Imoens does not quite feel right. I was a little suprised when she told me she thought she only girls :o , but that was all. I was not upset, as I thought about it, I had wondered if she was Bi during the conversation with the Dryads :idea:. I think you should leave the mod with just 1 Imoen. I will play the mod with however many Imoens there ends up being though. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Imoen's Sexuality
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:29 am 
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I think there should be 1 Immy as well.

Having two different Immies, one for M and one for F just feels wrong somehow. It makes her seem less "real."

Just my two cents.


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 Post subject: Re: Imoen's Sexuality
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:40 pm
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Location: The Netherlands
Agreed. I think there should only be one Imoen. Though that would probably give you one heck of a time to implement something like that realisticly. Oh, and I realise it was meant as a joke, but do include the 'checking out Jaheira' bit, simply because it's way too friggin' hilarious to leave out. Feeling up Aerie would be a good easter egg though :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Imoen's Sexuality
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:02 pm 
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Personally I wouldn't care that much, I could shrug such a revelation off, but with characters I'm not so sure.

The way I'd see it is that Imoen is basically bi, but just never got close to any men (which isn't surprising.. how many were they for any great length that we know of?), so she figured herself to be only into girls.

What I don't like about that solution is making up someone that got her interested as a youth and while I certainly never minded making up stuff about the past of Immy and the HC (some of the anecdotes are very nice) it just feels very arbitrary.

I'd vote for letting it in but maybe rephrasing the dialogue. It's a bit "Oh and theres that"-ish.

:)

Edit:
Also - having thoughts and dreams of the same sex is not a sign of homosexuality, me thinks.

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 Post subject: Re: Imoen's Sexuality
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:29 am
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Hi.I registered just to say one thing.In Baldurs Gate 1,in Beregost,when asked Garrick to join your group, Imoen asks you to recruit because she says that he is very handsome... :roll:
Therefore, the alleged Imoen's homosexuality is shattered.
As much is bisexual, but she likes men.
Bye


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