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 Post subject: Re: Imoen's Sexuality
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:51 pm 
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I see her as being bisexual as well, and prefer there being only one Imoen with enough love for anyone. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Imoen's Sexuality
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 4:19 am 
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It reminds me of Leliana from DAO - romancing her with a female character she states that she, well, likes the company of women, so I would deal with Imoen same way, so no need to change much of her... I understood the dialog between her and the PC (playing female PCs more than male) as if she preferes women, although she said she does not like men. Maybe just rewriting it to a more "I like the boys but somehow I feel more attracted to girls"...
But: There could be some dialogue or action depending on the gender of the PC; I mean ... like e.g. talking about "girlstuff" on the one and have dialogues about "odd behavior" of man on the other hand or something - would be more realistic because imo there is a difference in how we react on a person of the opposite or the same sex even if one likes both.

Edit:
I would also prefer if there still would be talking about the way of the relationship; I remember Jaheira mentioning that she is not just offended by a relationship between "silblings" but also, in a little subordinate clause that the PC is female... (what would a great trigger for some discussion with her by the way). Anyway, There should still be a dialoge about it if the PC is woman - in the actual dialogues I have the impression that one can even choose if the female PC is more bi or a 100% lesbian. So the relationship also defines the PC.

With a male PC there one could talk about her sexuality as well - he could be offended by it (interesting dialogue-option btw because that would be a bit contradictory to the fact that the PC has a relationship with his half-sister), sympathetic or even thinking about ... well you know ;)

However, I think that straight or lesbian relationships should still be described differently.


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 Post subject: Re: Imoen's Sexuality
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:06 pm 
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TCDale wrote:
I'm going to state one thing right at the beginning, to avoid any gripes about it: canonically, Imoen is a lesbian.


OK, I had to register just to respond to this since it riled me beyond all reasoning (j/k)... Please do not take the 'official' books as 'canon' and use them as a basis for anything in this mod. They are little more than poorly-written fan fiction, as evidenced by the multitude of liberties the author made on the material by altering characters to his own liking (Minsc with hair just being just one, blindingly obvious, example).

In fact, on the old BIS boards of 3 of the game designers I spoke to about the books 2 hadn't read any of them and the other was disgusted that the one he'd read had been allowed to go to print. BIS/IPLY had no input into the novelisation content and didn't even seem to have any proofreading input either. On this basis alone, they have no more authenticity than your own, and countless other amateur fan-written material.

Anyway, now that's off my chest...

Personally I'd prefer any homosexual material to be confined to the homosexual version of the mod. The 'I don't like guys but for some reason like you,' and her apparent bragging regarding her crush on the half-elf (IIRC) seemed very jarring and insulting to me in Lord Mirrabo's original version. I can't help wondering if Lord Mirrabo decided to make her a lesbian due to a belief in the 'canon' books or some other reason? Just curious.

None of this is intended as a flame btw, just an opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Imoen's Sexuality
PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:36 am 
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Three things:

First of all, as a man who typically plays male PCs, I must say that I did find Imoen's "I'm a lesbian but I like you anyways" comments to be quite jarring and out of place. Something like this could cause some real problems for a guy in a relationship. He might start thinking, "So, does she only like me because she thinks I'm kinda girly? Am I not really a real man?" etc. I think that the mod would benefit by changing this aspect.

Secondly, as for your question, is there one Imoen or two Imoens? I believe that there are actually as many Imoens out there as there are PCs. The PC is a HUGE part of Imoen's life; from the time she was relatively young and then through some very traumatic events, the PC has been there with her. So, of course Imoen is going to be different if the PC is different. Would Imoen be the same if the PC didn't let her join his/her party outside of Candlekeep? Would Imoen be the same if her long-time best friend were a pure-hearted paladin or a chaotic evil psychopath? No. The people that we associate with, that we have around us, impact upon the type of person that we turn out to be. In an ideal world we would have a game where every little event and conversation changed not only Imoen but all of the NPCs a little bit. I mean, look how wildly different Anomen can turn out based on whether or not the PC told him to go for revenge over his sister's murder. Anyways, I see nothing wrong with having 'different' Imoens for different PCs. It makes sense. And the game is more fun that way.

Finally, please don't take those awful novels to be 'canon' for the Baldur's Gate universe. Please? Canon, if you need to worry about it, should be considered to be BGI, BGII SoA and ToB games that were published, and nothing else. After all, didn't Khalid die in the first BG novel before they even got to the title city? How does that fit with 'canon'?


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 Post subject: Re: Imoen's Sexuality
PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:56 am 
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Raven3182 wrote:
Secondly, as for your question, is there one Imoen or two Imoens? I believe that there are actually as many Imoens out there as there are PCs. The PC is a HUGE part of Imoen's life; from the time she was relatively young and then through some very traumatic events, the PC has been there with her. So, of course Imoen is going to be different if the PC is different. Would Imoen be the same if the PC didn't let her join his/her party outside of Candlekeep? Would Imoen be the same if her long-time best friend were a pure-hearted paladin or a chaotic evil psychopath? No. The people that we associate with, that we have around us, impact upon the type of person that we turn out to be. In an ideal world we would have a game where every little event and conversation changed not only Imoen but all of the NPCs a little bit. I mean, look how wildly different Anomen can turn out based on whether or not the PC told him to go for revenge over his sister's murder. Anyways, I see nothing wrong with having 'different' Imoens for different PCs. It makes sense. And the game is more fun that way.

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 Post subject: Re: Imoen's Sexuality
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:26 pm 
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FruitLoop wrote:
TCDale wrote:
I'm going to state one thing right at the beginning, to avoid any gripes about it: canonically, Imoen is a lesbian.


OK, I had to register just to respond to this since it riled me beyond all reasoning (j/k)... Please do not take the 'official' books as 'canon' and use them as a basis for anything in this mod. They are little more than poorly-written fan fiction, as evidenced by the multitude of liberties the author made on the material by altering characters to his own liking (Minsc with hair just being just one, blindingly obvious, example).

In fact, on the old BIS boards of 3 of the game designers I spoke to about the books 2 hadn't read any of them and the other was disgusted that the one he'd read had been allowed to go to print. BIS/IPLY had no input into the novelisation content and didn't even seem to have any proofreading input either. On this basis alone, they have no more authenticity than your own, and countless other amateur fan-written material.

Anyway, now that's off my chest...

Personally I'd prefer any homosexual material to be confined to the homosexual version of the mod. The 'I don't like guys but for some reason like you,' and her apparent bragging regarding her crush on the half-elf (IIRC) seemed very jarring and insulting to me in Lord Mirrabo's original version. I can't help wondering if Lord Mirrabo decided to make her a lesbian due to a belief in the 'canon' books or some other reason? Just curious.

None of this is intended as a flame btw, just an opinion.

100% agree.Besides, if you read the books that really go all over the game's story.
Quote:
Finally, please don't take those awful novels to be 'canon' for the Baldur's Gate universe. Please? Canon, if you need to worry about it, should be considered to be BGI, BGII SoA and ToB games that were published, and nothing else. After all, didn't Khalid die in the first BG novel before they even got to the title city? How does that fit with 'canon'?

Also agree 100%.And because of that, then we must accept as canon that Imoen likes men, so I wrote in my previous post.
Do not you think?


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 Post subject: Re: Imoen's Sexuality
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:56 am 
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Raven3182 wrote:
After all, didn't Khalid die in the first BG novel before they even got to the title city?

How is it a bad thing?

When I have played BG1 last time before playing BG2, Imoen has died in Beregost, and many others have died. Minsc has died when I refused to help him and he attacked my party, I think Jaheira died too. It was completely ignored by BG2 the game, despite that it was canon because it happened in BG1 the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Imoen's Sexuality
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:44 am 
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Just played through the conversation and it didn't seem terribly out of place. The way it is written she just likes girls, nowhere did she say she didn't like guys, she just didn't think about it before. I did like the option to act all grossed out though; I thought it was funny. Anyway, one Imoen seems both more efficient for you and more reasonable to the story.

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 Post subject: Re: Things You'd Like to See in TOB
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:19 pm 
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Hmmn, Extremely Minor Dialogue tweaks could fix this all. But, I am not sure if its worth the hassle honestly.


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