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 Post subject: Born in Candlekeep
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:35 am 
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In the SoA portion of the mod there is obviously the incredibly creepy dialogue with Imoen where she adamantly states that she was born in Candlekeep and acts incredibly disturbed even if you pretend that you were joking about it later on. I think it brings up an incredible level of mystery, so I'm wondering, did Lord M actually tell you what was up with that whole thing? Or are you going to be filling in the blanks as best as you can?


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 Post subject: Re: Born in Candlekeep
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:11 pm 
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It's been a while since I've reviewed the TOB side (since I've been working on the SOA v2 side -- which, YES, I actually am making progress on). I do remember Lord M's materials to me including a bit about that, but I honestly don't recall how much he had fleshed that particular part out. Some plot points he had nearly completely written and planned; some were still at the "Don't forget to write this later!" stage.

So I guess the short answer for now is -- I don't remember! However, I do know that he was planning on addressing/expanding it. If he never got to that point... I'm not sure what I'll do. Figure it out when I get there, I suppose :)

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 Post subject: Re: Born in Candlekeep
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:21 pm 
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Does it mean that charname has arrived to Candlekeep 10 years before her own birth?

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 Post subject: Re: Born in Candlekeep
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:02 am 
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It could be that she, unlike CHARNAME, pulled a Sarevok and practiced her theif hiding skills during the temple purge, only to years later be discovered by Gorion/Harpers, have her memory magically erased, and be fostered by Winthrop.
Or what if the reason Gorion chose CHARNAME over the remaining spawn was because of his unusually high level of taint, and in the course of experimenting with it shaved a portion of his essence off which either lodged in or grew into Imoen... If Imoen is actually a piece of CHARNAME it might explain why his soul wears her face.
Read Anansi Boys by Neil Gaiman.
Lots of possibilities, good story thread that all but demands attention.
Looking forward to end result.

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 Post subject: Re: Born in Candlekeep
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:22 pm 
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EDIT: oops this was supposed to be in Things you want to see in ToB... although, it kind of fits here...

It would be neat to have flashbacks, dreams or even shared dreams with Imoen. Possibly after a talk with the fake Gorion... Maybe she remembers something?

As for the shared dreams thing... In SoA your dreams were apparently unrelated to Imoen... but with the taint inside you. Imoen's dreams were of her own accord I guess. A strong sibling-like bond.

But, in ToB assuming your relationship is romantic...
You could feasibly believe that maybe they can have shared dreams now...

For one, assuming charname and Imoen are in a strong physical relationship (possibly even more so after the time between SoA and ToB); their bond would be even stronger now than even before. You could even have the elves give you and Imoen an elven gift (that unbeknowst to you will let you share dreams or something at some point... [also perhaps... if you pick up a pair of mind control circlets from the Flayers in SoA... and have it on your person when transitioning from SoA to ToB... [You could add something about Imoen grabbing some mind control circlets in SoA Imoen Romance..., if you enter that Flayer underdark place) The elves could mess with it... make it into a dream circlet... lol ).
Then again charname has his own pocketplane, so I imagine one way or another he could make it happen...

Also, assuming Imoen's bhaalspawn taint is now just really awakening. (She actually talks to charname about her nightmares in ToB... they started recently... that's a good excuse to invade her dreams, to focus her after dealing with her taint :P) Although she speaks about rivers of blood and other troubling things...

It would be really interesting if there was something important for Imoen to remember in her past... but she couldn't do it on her own. So...
Well, if you DID have a way to see into her dreams, you *could* pull off a complete dream quest area. (Similar to the dream in SoA where you had the freedom to wander around.... but more involved maybe?)

For instance... you appear back in candlekeep, but Imoen's already in a dream/memory. You have to influence little kid Imoen to push her towards finding the truth (or perhaps you have to decide how much you want to push; perhaps she will be VERY resistant to opening that door). I don't know what dark secret is locked within her (if it is dark?), but at some point perhaps adult/real Imoen and taint Imoen(evil charname illusion (like charname saw Imoen as an illusion)?) will be in the dream.

...
Anyways, I could see lots of potential fun with it; if it's even needed or wanted. (If you did want a corrupt Imoen or something, this could be key; perhaps depending what happens in the dream could lead to multiple major possiblities?)

Imoennn


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 Post subject: Re: Born in Candlekeep
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:00 pm 
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Well, the first thing that comes to mind to me is that Imoen (at least in TOB) is an archmage -- and maybe the PC is, too (if you're the magey type). And I know in actual pen and paper D&D, there are "dream sharing" spells of various types. So if they wanted to, theoretically, they COULD share dreams. I guess my question would be -- why would they want to?

Sharing Taint dreams... well, I suspect they'd freak Imoen out (they freaked you out, when you started having them back in BG1, and she's seen first hand your Slayer transformations, which would probably make them even freakier to her). She'd probably prefer not to have more exposure to that than necessary, so I doubt she'd be keen on sharing any dreams of yours that were Taint-related. As for sharing HER Taint-related dreams (should she have any) -- why share them with you when she can just tell you about them?

And as for non-Taint related dreams... again, why share them when she can just tell you about them?

I dunno. Seems like a lot of magicking around for not much reason. Convince me!

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 Post subject: Re: Born in Candlekeep
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:21 pm 
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TCDale wrote:
As for sharing HER Taint-related dreams (should she have any) -- why share them with you when she can just tell you about them?


Maybe you could help her in them?

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 Post subject: Re: Born in Candlekeep
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:17 am 
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TCDale wrote:
Well, the first thing that comes to mind to me is that Imoen (at least in TOB) is an archmage -- and maybe the PC is, too (if you're the magey type). And I know in actual pen and paper D&D, there are "dream sharing" spells of various types. So if they wanted to, theoretically, they COULD share dreams. I guess my question would be -- why would they want to?

Sharing Taint dreams... well, I suspect they'd freak Imoen out (they freaked you out, when you started having them back in BG1, and she's seen first hand your Slayer transformations, which would probably make them even freakier to her). She'd probably prefer not to have more exposure to that than necessary, so I doubt she'd be keen on sharing any dreams of yours that were Taint-related. As for sharing HER Taint-related dreams (should she have any) -- why share them with you when she can just tell you about them?

And as for non-Taint related dreams... again, why share them when she can just tell you about them?

I dunno. Seems like a lot of magicking around for not much reason. Convince me!


I see a few possiblities :
1) If Imoen is having some kind of repressed memory that she cannot for the life of her get passed or remember. [Such as if the fake Gorion stirs up something she'd long forgotten.] A curious, helpful or dastardly charname could bring up the idea.

2) A dastardly charname could stumble upon this spell, and use it without Imoen's knowledge... or something...

3) If Imoen is having problems coping with the taint, aggrivated beyond what is normally described in vanilla ToB from some new circumstance from Imoen SoA or ToB; you could invade her dreams to help her fight the taint (choose the right path). [Or maybe choose the wrong one...?]

I know in Vanilla ToB Imoen turns into a Slayer randomly once... that freaked me out...
... wait.... why did Imoen do that?

I mean I know Charname lost control to the slayer because the divine essence was taken. But, Imoen is supposebly fine. So... why did she turn into a Slayer?
Each time charname turns into the slayer the more corrupt/rep loss you supposebly deal with. So, if you take too long during ToB; after the initial Imoen -> Slayer transformation, it could eventually happen again... and again... worsening!

Well, that's a good reason as any to deal with the slayer/taint in her dreams; I would think. If she cannot deal with it on her own or she sucumbs to it; then that certainly could be one way to *attempt* to deal with it.

4) Imoen plays a joke on you and enters your dream... causing some really strange dreams...........


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 Post subject: Re: Born in Candlekeep
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:52 am 
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X-Calibar wrote:
TCDale wrote:
Well, the first thing that comes to mind to me is that Imoen (at least in TOB) is an archmage -- and maybe the PC is, too (if you're the magey type). And I know in actual pen and paper D&D, there are "dream sharing" spells of various types. So if they wanted to, theoretically, they COULD share dreams. I guess my question would be -- why would they want to?

Sharing Taint dreams... well, I suspect they'd freak Imoen out (they freaked you out, when you started having them back in BG1, and she's seen first hand your Slayer transformations, which would probably make them even freakier to her). She'd probably prefer not to have more exposure to that than necessary, so I doubt she'd be keen on sharing any dreams of yours that were Taint-related. As for sharing HER Taint-related dreams (should she have any) -- why share them with you when she can just tell you about them?

And as for non-Taint related dreams... again, why share them when she can just tell you about them?

I dunno. Seems like a lot of magicking around for not much reason. Convince me!


I see a few possiblities :
1) If Imoen is having some kind of repressed memory that she cannot for the life of her get passed or remember. [Such as if the fake Gorion stirs up something she'd long forgotten.] A curious, helpful or dastardly charname could bring up the idea.

2) A dastardly charname could stumble upon this spell, and use it without Imoen's knowledge... or something...

3) If Imoen is having problems coping with the taint, aggrivated beyond what is normally described in vanilla ToB from some new circumstance from Imoen SoA or ToB; you could invade her dreams to help her fight the taint (choose the right path). [Or maybe choose the wrong one...?]

I know in Vanilla ToB Imoen turns into a Slayer randomly once... that freaked me out...
... wait.... why did Imoen do that?

I mean I know Charname lost control to the slayer because the divine essence was taken. But, Imoen is supposebly fine. So... why did she turn into a Slayer?
Each time charname turns into the slayer the more corrupt/rep loss you supposebly deal with. So, if you take too long during ToB; after the initial Imoen -> Slayer transformation, it could eventually happen again... and again... worsening!

Well, that's a good reason as any to deal with the slayer/taint in her dreams; I would think. If she cannot deal with it on her own or she sucumbs to it; then that certainly could be one way to *attempt* to deal with it.

4) Imoen plays a joke on you and enters your dream... causing some really strange dreams...........


i was talking about #3, exactly

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 Post subject: Re: Born in Candlekeep
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:48 am 
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I think we should stay away from dreams in ToB personally. Each game had a venue for expressing your taint, and dreams weren't it in the final installment. The first game had text based dreams, the second one had spectator dreams driven by your taint, and ToB had the trials for you to master. If anything Imoen related needs to be addressed through the taint, it should probably be through an additional trial of some sort.


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