Login | Register


All times are UTC + 1 hour [ DST ]


It is currently Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:27 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about torture [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:01 am 
Junior Acolyte
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:23 pm
Posts: 133
PTSD has been a big deal here at least since Audie Murphy championed the cause of victims of "shell shock." The Army considers it very important that symptoms of PTSD be recognized posthaste. I do not know what you mean when you say PTSD is only tolerable if it is from rape, because PTSD can result from almost any emotionally charged negative experience.

_________________
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain. (It's time to roll the dice)
Matrim Cauthon


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about torture [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:26 am 
Newcomer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:24 pm
Posts: 19
Quote:
How do you play a PC who has severe PTSD? How does it work technically?


Well, it's not that easy, since most dialogue options don't allow for it, and the only mods where I've seen an opportunity for the PC to talk about what happened are Xan and Kivan's NPC mods, which are tailored more toward female PC's. I personally like that option, because otherwise I have to play as a PC who is the type that closes up about it and tries to bury negative feelings out of shame and the need to appear strong for the others in the party. Understandable, yes, but not necessarily psychologically healthy.

Quote:
Anyway, the only PTSD that is allowed is PTSD from rape. If you have PTSD from rape, then your feelings are extremely important because people were conditioned for it by rape awareness campaigns.
If your PTSD isn't from rape but for example from being kidnapped, kept in slavery in horrible conditions and you get mutilated, then you're a target of ridicule because you're a "whiner".
Or if for example you're all messed up because you had a nightmarish childhood and adolescence thanks to your alcoholic father - then they will hate you, mock you and write stories where you get killed horribly.



Are you saying that PTSD from rape is the only type that counts, or are you referring to cultural viewpoints on the subject?

And regarding BG2 being a PC-centric vs NPC-centric game: I think it's pretty balanced. The PC is definitely the main character - though Imoen and Sarevok have plot importance, they aren't necessary. Thus BG2 is seperate from, say, the Neverwinter Nights campaign, where the focus is definitely Aribeth.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about torture [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:40 pm 
Grand Poobah
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:01 am
Posts: 611
TCDale wrote:
Despair wrote:
If your PTSD isn't from rape but for example from being kidnapped, kept in slavery in horrible conditions and you get mutilated, then you're a target of ridicule because you're a "whiner".
Or if for example you're all messed up because you had a nightmarish childhood and adolescence thanks to your alcoholic father - then they will hate you, mock you and write stories where you get killed horribly.


I'm not sure where you're getting this. PTSD is recognized from a lot more sources, both technically and in the media, from more than rape. Even just on TV, I've seen it from experiencing violence, from witnessing violence (especially death or violence towards a loved one), kidnapping, and emotional abuse.

Now, I'm in the US, so maybe we are more considerate about people who have undergone bad things than people in Poland?

Mostly from the Internet, especially IE communities. Note that I wrote about the two most hated characters in BG2, which are hated precisely because of their trauma.
Generally in some other IE modding communities, it's perfectly ok to pile abuse on characters and people with mental problems, but when someone uses "ohnotheR-word" suddenly people become horribly sensitive.

TCDale wrote:
Despair wrote:
His techniques were already extreme. Also, why would it be necessary to break Imoen?


Well, two things that are suggested in the game, if I recall:

1) To refine/perfect his techniques before moving on to PC
2) To get a divine soul for Bodhi (both Bodhi and Irenicus suffered the same curse, thus would need the same 'cure')

I've re-read the starting dialogues and it looks to me like Imoen was already broken - all that stuff about how "death is pretty" etc. is supposed to be creepy and un-Imoenlike and show that there's something seriously wrong with her, not that she resists successfully. And for PC, he didn't need any special psychological techniques. He just needed to perform a ritual.

Jazmin wrote:
Quote:
How do you play a PC who has severe PTSD? How does it work technically?


Well, it's not that easy, since most dialogue options don't allow for it, and the only mods where I've seen an opportunity for the PC to talk about what happened are Xan and Kivan's NPC mods, which are tailored more toward female PC's. I personally like that option, because otherwise I have to play as a PC who is the type that closes up about it and tries to bury negative feelings out of shame and the need to appear strong for the others in the party. Understandable, yes, but not necessarily psychologically healthy.

It sounds like playing-pretend.

Jazmin wrote:
Quote:
Anyway, the only PTSD that is allowed is PTSD from rape. If you have PTSD from rape, then your feelings are extremely important because people were conditioned for it by rape awareness campaigns.
If your PTSD isn't from rape but for example from being kidnapped, kept in slavery in horrible conditions and you get mutilated, then you're a target of ridicule because you're a "whiner".
Or if for example you're all messed up because you had a nightmarish childhood and adolescence thanks to your alcoholic father - then they will hate you, mock you and write stories where you get killed horribly.



Are you saying that PTSD from rape is the only type that counts, or are you referring to cultural viewpoints on the subject?

I'm referring to cultural viewpoints on the subject. Note how quick people are to dismiss even torture as something traumatic or as a proof of someoene being evil.

Jazmin wrote:
And regarding BG2 being a PC-centric vs NPC-centric game: I think it's pretty balanced. The PC is definitely the main character - though Imoen and Sarevok have plot importance, they aren't necessary. Thus BG2 is seperate from, say, the Neverwinter Nights campaign, where the focus is definitely Aribeth.

Imoen is necessary. It's impossible to kill her in the Irenicus dungeon and if she died in BG1, it is ignored.
Also, there's for example lot of flavour dialogue when some people find NPCs attractive but not the PC, regardless of her stats.

_________________
Free legal music.
More of free legal music.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about torture [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:39 pm 
Junior Acolyte
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:23 pm
Posts: 133
Despair wrote:
Imoen is necessary. It's impossible to kill her in the Irenicus dungeon and if she died in BG1, it is ignored.


This actually brings to mind something that bothered me. Why can Imoen be raised from the dead? As far as I know, conventional magic cannot raise Bhaalspawn, and Sarevok only comes back through a combination of borrowed soul bits and sheer willpower and he loses most of his traits thereafter. What makes her special?

_________________
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain. (It's time to roll the dice)
Matrim Cauthon


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about torture [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:41 pm 
Grand Poobah
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:01 am
Posts: 611
TimTh33nchant3r wrote:
Despair wrote:
Imoen is necessary. It's impossible to kill her in the Irenicus dungeon and if she died in BG1, it is ignored.


This actually brings to mind something that bothered me. Why can Imoen be raised from the dead? As far as I know, conventional magic cannot raise Bhaalspawn, and Sarevok only comes back through a combination of borrowed soul bits and sheer willpower and he loses most of his traits thereafter. What makes her special?

She wasn't intended to be a Bhaalspawn in BG1. She was added at the last moment because it turned out that wizard characters couldn't survive the trip to Friendly Arm Inn.
In original BG2 scenario she was supposed to get killed off in Spellhold, but fans protested too much.

_________________
Free legal music.
More of free legal music.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about torture [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:46 pm 
Junior Acolyte
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:23 pm
Posts: 133
I understand that she was added for game balance, but that does not change the fact the story-wise it makes absolutely no sense. Besides which, she was one of my favorite characters in BG1.
Quote:
She wasn't intended to be a Bhaalspawn in BG1. She was added at the last moment because it turned out that wizard characters couldn't survive the trip to Friendly Arm Inn


Especially since I was playing an Evoker ;)

_________________
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain. (It's time to roll the dice)
Matrim Cauthon


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about torture [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:11 pm 
Grand Poobah
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:01 am
Posts: 611
TimTh33nchant3r wrote:
I understand that she was added for game balance, but that does not change the fact the story-wise it makes absolutely no sense.

It doesn't make sense storywise because they didn't know that in BG2 she will be a child of Bhaal.

_________________
Free legal music.
More of free legal music.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about torture [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:40 pm 
Forum God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:21 am
Posts: 422
Location: Oklahoma
This just begs for a modification where if Imoen dies, she's perma-dead.

Of course, that would make the game (and the romance) significantly harder.... :D

_________________
T.C. Dale
http://www.tcdale.com
Original Fantasy, Sword & Sorcery, and Fantasy Erotica


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about torture [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:07 pm 
Initiate of Imoen
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:40 pm
Posts: 31
Now Dale, that would be puuuuure evil! But ut would make sense, I can see the nerd rage now....XD


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about torture [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:42 pm 
Newcomer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:24 pm
Posts: 19
Quote:
It sounds like playing-pretend.



So you never use your imagination while playing a character? That's what defines RP-ing for me . . . I mean, how can you define your PC's personality if you don't "play pretend?" (Speaking as someone who doesn't base her characters on herself) If I took everything a game, book, TV series etc. gave me at face value and never thought any deeper than that, I would quickly become bored.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, I'm just slightly surprised.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron