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 Post subject: Imoen: SOA now with German translation
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:37 pm 
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The Imoen Romance mod (the SOA portion) has been updated with a German language translation, thanks to the team over at Baldur's Gate.EU. The new version (1.202) is now available on the downloads page.

I don't speak German myself, so I haven't tested it yet. Anyone who speaks German is more than welcome to give it a test run, though!

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 Post subject: Re: Imoen: SOA now with German translation
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:51 pm 
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I'll give it a try, if you want... but it could take a while, i'm kinda busy with exams right now... :?


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 Post subject: Re: Imoen: SOA now with German translation
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:56 pm 
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TCDale wrote:
I don't speak German myself, so I haven't tested it yet. Anyone who speaks German is more than welcome to give it a test run, though!

Thanks for the update. :D

We've used the German translation for one year, now (I think) and it worked fine with v1.201. So it should work with v1.202, too. ;)

But it can't be tested enough. So Randir, thanks for testing. :)

Greetings Leomar

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 Post subject: Re: Imoen: SOA now with German translation
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:25 pm 
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gonna be a pleasure having imoen actually talk german for a change ;) so i have to thank you guys for translating


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 Post subject: Re: Imoen: SOA now with German translation
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:56 pm 
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Randir wrote:
gonna be a pleasure having imoen actually talk german for a change ;) so i have to thank you guys for translating


I agree with this :)

I will give it a try as soon as possible, which unfortunaly could take some time. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Imoen: SOA now with German translation
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 1:22 am 
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I'm playing the German version right now - although I'm not through all of it yet but so far I can tell that the translation is okay (I cannot compare it with the English version), little typos but nothing one should worry.
I maybe would translate a bit different and yet closer to the "medieval" language because some dialogues still (the translator wrote he used a translation closer to the game) sound a bit "modern"

Only thing that is a little confusing is that Imoen adresses the PC with the personal you (Du) and not the more antiquated you (Ihr) as she does in the German language version of the original game.

It's difficult to explain because in English you is always you but in German the personal "Du" is not used in "medieval language" of games, movies or novels - they adress each other with "Ihr"... even if they are very close to each other, except for parents and their children or brothers and sisters. And maybe because of that one could add a dialoge for the German version of the revised mod in which Imoen and the PC decide to change from the "Ihr" to a closer and more personal "Du" - at least in their personal dialogues.
If that is possible...
(I am not sure how the characters adress each other in other languages)


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 Post subject: Re: Imoen: SOA now with German translation
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:51 pm 
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Hm, this thread is kinda old but since I am one of the main translators and additionally the lonely but highly dedicated proof-reader and overall last person to ever work on the translation I feel sort of obliged to write something. :mrgreen:


@ jack1603
Apart from the typos - which exist because of my bad spelling, especially after the ongoing spelling reform - you dive right into the more… philosophical… areas of translating.

You wrote you cannot compare the translation to the original which is sad because I think it is an essential part of checking a translation for quality. Anyway, regarding the question of modern style there is a gap we have to take into account.

Our starting position presents itself as follows:
1. The german version of BG2 is really archaic and "medieval", sometimes up to a point where I personally consider it pretentious and artificial.
2. The english version of BG2 is more modern sounding, apart from the occasional NPC that uses archaic speech patterns.
3. The ImoenRom is even more modern than BG2 itself.

Therefore the gap between the original ImoenRom and the german BG2 is huge. And that is the point where we/I got into trouble or at least had to use our monkey brains and think about stuff (and nobody likes that! :shock: ). There is a line between translating something and writing your own interpretation of something in a different language. Where do you draw that line? How much can you deviate from the original work and still call it a faithful translation? Is a faithful translation even what you're aiming for?

I was. And I drew the line at that point where you change the feeling of the written material. And yes, there are strings where I really stretched things way too much for my own taste in order to let it sound at least more or less like the german BG2. These are also the parts I consider not finished because I still don't know how much I really want to move away from the original.

As I wrote it is the balance between translating and rewriting something. And that's also a thing people see and value differently. Maybe you would see things differently if you'd play the english version of the Mod and see for yourself how much I linguistically aged the translation. Or you would reverse my changes in order to keep it closer to the original. Or you would go even further with it.



The other thing is of course the interaction between Imoen and CHARNAME and the way they address each other. And that's quite a bit complicated. Before I state my/our view on this issue, I'll try to explain what this is all about so non-german people know what the hell we're talking about here. ^^

Unlike modern English, there are two ways to address somebody in modern German; the formal way (you = Sie) and the informal way (you = du). Modern English often uses all that "thou thineself art thine undoing"-stuff to let something sound archaic and address people more formal. You could make a comparison between thou/you and du/sie, although that comparison would be flawed since you was originally the formal appellation while thou was the informal one.

Anyway, german translations of works of fantasy and some sci-fi don't use those two but a third one (at least in German it is a third one, dunno bout English): the majestic plural (you = Ihr), "The Royal We" as it is known, with a twist. It isn't used for self reference but only for referencing ALL other people (which makes it so ridiculous).


So, when we started the translation we decided that there's absolutely no way that two young, common people who've known each other since early childhood would use the majestic plural with each other. So we used the informal appellation. And we were planning to rewrite all of Immy's dialogs to match the new style, so we contacted Imoen's german voice actress and asked if she would rerecord her lines. She even agreed but as more and more people vanished from the project things came to nothing in the end.

The informal du is only used between CHARNAME and Imoen, they use the Ihr with everybody else and everybody else uses it with them. So yeah, it kinda sticks out and maybe sounds a little weird at first but it is consistent and we saw the thing through.

I'm sure there are lots of people who would've done it differently and there are lots of people who agree with us. But you never can please them all… :D

Your point of an additional dialog is something I did consider. I even wrote one but it turned out shitty. I couldn't (and still can't) imagine a situation where that would happen. Imagine you and your best friend know each other since you were six. And then at the age of 18 or something you decide to use the "Sie" form from now on without changing the nature of your friendship. Why would you do that? What could you possibly be thinking? But it doesn't stop there because then you become somehow closer friends and/or lovers and you decide to go back to the "du" form. It's ridiculous.

Another reason for my lack of action in this area is of course the fact that adding content like new dialogs, additional gender checks and stuff to a mod is beyond translating and (deep) into rewriting. Firstly you do not do that without permission and secondly it's just not part of a translation. The ImoenRom was a big project and as it goes with big projects you really need to define your course of action, your goals and what you're aiming for and then keep on track and do not look left and right of your path and fiddle about with dozens of things. Too much distraction kills ambition and dedication and you end up with fifteen unfinished things rather than one finished one.

If you are willing to write a suitable dialog I could code it and give it to T.C. Dale (if she is interested). Or you could revise our translation and change every du back to Ihr and we could offer two German translations.


Anyway, I hope I could clear things up for you and other people. We're still open for corrections and opinions at Kerzenburg forums, so slam me there in German if you feel the need. :D


Cheers

Wedge



p.s.
Please excuse my terrible English. After all, it's not my first language. ^^

Agreed, I could've written all this stuff in German but I'd consider that rude to all the other people here.


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 Post subject: Re: Imoen: SOA now with German translation
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:25 pm 
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Quote:
How much can you deviate from the original work and still call it a faithful translation?


A good question - the thing is: I have no idea how the Mod and the orginal game "sound" in English, so I can just guess.
And the next question is in which way the original mod language differs from the revised version.


To say it in German: Ruhig Blut. (Just stay calm)
It was never my intention to slam you.
I never wanted to say that the whole translation of the mod is ... well, bad - in my opionion most of it is quite good. Just a few things seem as they did not want to fit in. They appear a bit to modern but it could also be because of the original language and content of the mod. Thats all.

And...it can also be because of the change in the appalation.
In one original line of BG2 Imoen sais "Ihr" and the next line of the mod it is "Du". As you said: it sounds weird. Very weird.
Somehow I would use an appaltion like in Dragon Age...
The translation in this mod-version should not be altered - it would be to much work for the original mod and is -like I said- good in the most part of it.

Maybe we can "join forces" for the revised Imoen-mod-translation.


"you dive right into the more… philosophical… areas of translating." I love the philosphy of things :D


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