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 Post subject: Re: Dragon Age 2 to be as good as Baldur's Gate II
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:52 pm 
Priest(ess) of the Pink Mage
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Well, obviously it is a matter of opinion..

For example, I don't agree that what many name as positive changes are that. I don't like the way combat has changed, at all. I don't like the fixed past, no matter how much "more involved" that is supposed to be, and I sincierly despise the fact that they recycle a lot of maps. This is not Oblivion , where you are excused of designing all 200 dungeons. And I hate this dialouge system. It is like the one in Mass Effect, only worse. I don't see how it enhances roleplaying for people.

If someone enjoys this game, cool, knock yourself out. I'm out.

As for the BG2 comparison.. obviously BG2 has aged. 11 Years guys. People have moved on in their expectations, but I'd still say that BG2 is the better game, for more options, re-playability and mass of content. I'd rather be the bhaalspawn again than Hawk.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragon Age 2 to be as good as Baldur's Gate II
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:44 pm
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Hooray! Reasonable person's opinion! Point by point then.

Combat: More action than tactical. I'd say it was a good move (tactical will never fly on a console) but it wasn't taken far enough. If you want the game to play faster then it has to be designed so that the player just hammering the attack button is a rarity. Unfortunately that happens often and the game suffers for it. But outside of big boss encounters it works well enough.

Backstory: I enjoyed the origins idea. It was implemented really well. But it's just something that can't be done for every game. Especially since Bioware seem to be trying to develop an overarching plot. One of my warden characters ended up being a Queen. Another a dwarven King. Another an elven hero. How exactly are they going to include all of those possible outcomes? For one game, sure. But longterm it would kill the setting.

Maps: Now this certainly doesn't excuse the recycling of maps but I read something on TVTropes that made me see this in a new light. The whole game is a story being told by Varric. So each place he'd be like "No shit. There we were in this warehouse and we killed a bunch of guys." So the generic warehouse or mansion or sewer or cave is just the Seeker filling in the blanks. The lazy game design (yes, I still agree it's lazy) reinforces the narrative.

Dialogue: Good/Evil, nice/nasty, snarky and money-grubbing. Those are the six basic response types in DA2. And guess what. Those have ALWAYS been the six basic response types in just about every RPG ever (not including "kill dudes" though that's also an option). The difference is that your general preference actually impacts the lines where you aren't given options. Be snarky most of the time and Hawke defaults to snarky most of the time. That way the character stays consistent and you still have the option of being more aggressive or compassionate when you feel it's necessary.


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 Post subject: Re: Dragon Age 2 to be as good as Baldur's Gate II
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:17 am 
Priest(ess) of the Pink Mage
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Quote:
Dialogue: Good/Evil, nice/nasty, snarky and money-grubbing. Those are the six basic response types in DA2. And guess what. Those have ALWAYS been the six basic response types in just about every RPG ever (not including "kill dudes" though that's also an option).


I'm aware of that, having, yknow, played RPGs before. I prefer the lines I can say spelled out to me though. Mass Effect had me more than once saying something in a way I'd not actually wanted, because the one-word-summary wasn't clear enough. I also don't like that I don't get to chose every single line my character says. It should not be that I select a mood at the beginning, and then there's so two sided dialoge before I can choose again. The familiar type of "select one line" also limits you to what the designer thought of, but to me it feels more like I'm in control.

Quote:
Combat: More action than tactical. I'd say it was a good move (tactical will never fly on a console) but it wasn't taken far enough.


I can't afford a console, so that makes it kinda hard to adapt to that. It was either TV+console, and who'd want a TV, or a PC to do my university work with.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragon Age 2 to be as good as Baldur's Gate II
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:22 pm 
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I actually liked this game.

There, I said it. Yeah, the combat is a little light, yeah, you see the same warehouse like 50 times, and yeah, the dialogue was on rare occasion unclear, but for all its flaws I had a great deal of fun.

Compare BG2 to DA2:

Combat: BG2 wins hands down. There are numerous strategies for executing your foes, and it really pays to just pause and micromanage your entire party. DA2 has a pretty thorough if/then gambit system, but those circumstances where you need a change of tactics are very vexing, because controlling multiple party members simultaneously is cumbersome in their interface. So, short version, DA2 has better AI, but when it becomes necessary to supersede it, it just sucks.

Resource re-use (AKA laziness): Seems about the same. I am not saying this is a good thing, I just think this problem has been around for a long time, and is not unique to DA2. I remember one instance in BG2 where I was going to hunt Reijik Hidesman and I went into the wrong building by mistake. The interior was identical to the first floor of his house, including the loot in the containers. Identical. In the same district no less. Yes it is lazy, and no it is not good, but I don't think it is appropriate to single DA2 out on this one.

Dialogue: This is a matter of personal preference I believe, as I have tried both and not had any real issue with either. A feature I do like that is featured in other games is the time limit, which prevents you from stalling conversation indefinitely while you try to decide what to say. Alpha protocol was a good example of this, but Way of the samurai was even better. I just don't think NPCs should be willing to wait half an hour for you to decide what to say. It detracts from the immersion in the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragon Age 2 to be as good as Baldur's Gate II
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:51 pm 
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I will probably get DA2 in the future but I don't want to spend so much money on it, so I'll wait til the price goes down. I've watched a walkthrough on youtube and from that I would say I think BG2 is a far better game. I feel like DA2 is too constrained in area, the characters are too predictable and there isn't a good villain. I also prefer BG2/DAO etc style dialogue. I'm not saying I dislike the game, it's just not my taste. ^_^


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 Post subject: Re: Dragon Age 2 to be as good as Baldur's Gate II
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:54 pm
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DAII in itself is a fairly reasonable game, I would say however that it feels rather much like a rushed game. Alot of the dungeons and caves have the same basic map except with a few blocked off doors. If you've played it you know what I mean. But as for it being as good as BG? I wouldn't ascribe it as being anywhere near.

For those that have played them, it's like saying Deus Ex Invisible War is as good as the original Deus Ex. Blatant lies.

However to be fair Invisible War WAS a good game. At least I thought so anyway, the only problem it had was it had to try to live up to the first. impossible. ^^

So yeah. In itself it's a fairly good game if you can overlook the feeling of rushed "ohcrapdeadline" that comes up when going into the same cave 3 times over.

To compare with the original DA:O
DA:O had more customization for your main character, and had a more epic expansive feel to it, You feel like you're making a legend.

DA:II feels more like a personalized story. Here is your character and despite what you go through and the stories that are made up about your exploits, (a certain dwarf is to blame I bet) It feels rather more like "all I want is to have a nice happy SAFE life, please leave me out of all this political intrigue and warfare please" At least the way I played it at any rate. So it feels more like the 'honest to god truth behind the legend' and you just happened to be in the wrong place at the right time. :)

Does it feel as epic in scope as BG? not really. Does it feel more personalized to that character's story? Definitely.

Had a talk with a friend a while back about how I like Star Wars and he likes Star Trek, it kind of makes me think of that. Star Wars had more abstract epic good vs evil, whereas Star Trek was more about the experiences of the people that went through those trials and tribulations and how they coped.

I'll stop rambling now. :oops:

Edit: I'm kind of proud of myself. all that text and not one spoiler that I can see. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Dragon Age 2 to be as good as Baldur's Gate II
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:59 am 
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Dalis918 wrote:
For those that have played them, it's like saying Deus Ex Invisible War is as good as the original Deus Ex. Blatant lies.


On a side note, the new one is much closer to being a worthy successor. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Dragon Age 2 to be as good as Baldur's Gate II
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:44 pm 
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Agreed. It's deep, cool and very pretty. Still kind of sore about the lack of skill points though. :roll:


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