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 Post subject: Education
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:52 pm 
Priest(ess) of the Pink Mage
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Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:06 pm
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Location: Nijmegen, Netherlands
Despair wrote:
How did they get into college, then?


To quote Carlin:

"Soon all you need to get into college is a fucking pencil!"

It's more difficult for elite colleges of course and different countries have different standards but hey..

I attend a University of Applied Science (Hogeschool in Dutch and something like "Fachhochschule" in German) which is about 1/2 step below a university and with 2 degrees (one German Abitur and a lesser Norwegian one) I am much more qualified than the average dutch attendee, because you only need MBO (middelbare school) to go there. Most Germans who go there have Abitur and the difference shows.

The people at 17 who have only MBO have NO understanding of academic writing (you should read their papers, they don't even know how to quote) or understand the necessary commitment they need to pass, because contrary to common belief Physiotherapy is really fucking hard. It is about 1/2 of a medical study without the cutting but with much more practise added.

They get into college because getting in is pretty easy, plain and simple.

Also, they largely are, as has been already said, inexperienced at real-life (that's ok, so was I) but because they are younger (I was nearly approaching 20 when I started) they have more trouble adapting.
Or they still live at home, which undermines the whole process..

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 Post subject: Re: Education
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:33 pm 
Grand Poobah
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It doesn't make sense. If they aren't good enough for college, they should go to a technical school. It's practically impossible to not finish a technical school and one ends up with a trade.
Or is it some kind of nonsense where college/university education is necessary for decent living, so they have to admit anyone who wants to go there so that they wouldn't end up being poor?

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 Post subject: Re: Education
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:39 pm 
Initiate of Imoen
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Location: SW Missouri
Here in the U.S. each college has it's own minimum exam scores for entry. Community College's generally have the lowest standards. They are the schools anyone can get into as long as you can sign your name correctly and remember how to tie your shoes. Universities have much higher standards but still vary from school to school. Private schools have the highest standards. But, as the standards go up, so does the cost.


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 Post subject: Re: Education
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:45 pm 
Initiate of Imoen
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Location: SW Missouri
Quote:
It doesn't make sense. If they aren't good enough for college, they should go to a technical school. It's practically impossible to not finish a technical school and one ends up with a trade.
Or is it some kind of nonsense where college/university education is necessary for decent living, so they have to admit anyone who wants to go there so that they wouldn't end up being poor?


All Colleges and universities are funded by the public, that way everyone has the oppertuinty to attend as long as they can afford the tuition. There are grants and scholarships that are available if an individual qualifies.


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 Post subject: Re: Education
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:05 am 
Grand Poobah
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So, it's the opposite of our system.

Public colleges/universities are "free", have the highest standards and usually require preparation since the start of the high school (choosing right subjects for the maturity exam, getting highest degrees from proper subjects, sometimes participating in olympics from proper subjects, etc.).
Highest ranking student get financial help from the state, so the better you are, the cheaper your education becomes.

Private schools usually are expensive, have lower standards (usually maturity exam subjects/scores don't count and exams are easier or sometimes there aren't exams) and look suspicious to potential employers, because sometimes they allow students to pass to next year just tu milk more money from them.

Generally, it's better to go to public school than to a private school here. Also, it's often safer as private schools tend to attract anti-social individuals that have rich parents, but can't get into a public school.

The community college thingie sounds like our "afterhighschool" technical schools. Still, I haven't met any people who could be described as "stupid as bricks" here. Some teachers are pretty weird, though - we had 2 drawing teachers, none of which were interesting in actually teaching us how to draw and we have a computer graphics teacher that often forgets what he was talking about and starts telling weird anecdotes instead of teaching us. Which is a shame because these two subjects were the only reasons why I went to an advertisement school.

Though, if you were teaching a night class, it's possible that these guys were after a day of work and probably didn't get enough sleep, so their mental abilities could be drastically lowered.

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 Post subject: Re: Education
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:36 am 
Priest(ess) of the Pink Mage
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Location: Nijmegen, Netherlands
I pay 1680€ per year, which is ~300€ more than I'd pay in Germany (well, my parents are paying that since I'm from a middle class background but still) and I get no help from the state (because the Dutch say I'm a foreigner - which is 100% true - and the Norwegian and German state resent that I left them and are now sulking and not handing anything over). So for me and any other foreign student, there's an extra reason for commitment, the money.
We have to succeed or face the fact that we wasted time and our parents money (and it is A LOT of money by European standards.. I know that's nothing compared to some expenses in the US).

Every Dutch students gets grants and perks from the state and can usually live at home for a while and thus as no rent to pay.
I feel many only attend because their parents make them and not because they want to, which is of course visible in their performance.

In Germany many Universities have a numerus clausus (NC) which is a minim average grade you need. For medicine in an elite university you need an average of straight A.
Or alternatively wait 4-6 years.

Here, by comparison, I got in by a.) lottery (no joke) and b.) because the university gets cash for every foreign student it has. My qualifications were somewhat secondary, I think.

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 Post subject: Re: Education
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:12 am 
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Yeah, the Dutch lottery system is honestly a strange one. A Dutch friend of mine had to apply twice to get into his dentist program cause he lost the lottery first time around. He's now passed that with flying colours, and has moved on to medical school to become a full-time doctor (In his words: "I need to do something to keep me busy"), which in my view means that they made him waste a year keeping busy just so he could get into the program.

In Belgium, most programs are freely accessible if you meet the prerequisites, except for medical school and civil engineering, which have entry exams. Most others have preparatory programs to give those who do not have the necessary skills a chance to learn them. Students get state funding depending on their parent's income (my father's an independent contractor who owns his own company, so we didn't get any, for instance), and you lose that support if you screw up too much. A pretty solid system, IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: Education
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:52 am 
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i would love to see a Maturity Exam!


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 Post subject: Re: Education
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:30 am 
Initiate of Imoen

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All a maturity exam would do is prove me right in my statement that I'm 4 years old.... And have been for the past 20 years. :mrgreen:


I lie about my age so I can get on the bouncy castles :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Education
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:47 pm 
Priest(ess) of the Pink Mage
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Location: Nijmegen, Netherlands
That's perfectly legit. :D


Aaaaand the dutch gouvernment now declared a campaign against German speaking students for reasons I haven't yet fully grasped. I mean, we live here, we pay our fees, if we work we pay taxes, we spend all our money here and we don't get any help through loans, unlike our Dutch brothers and sisters. If anything we cost them less money than domestic students?

The climate is changing... not just education wise, but the climate in our profession. Again we are getting sold to the insurance mafia and our union does shitall to fight for us.

I guess I'll be leaving after I graduate. Shame, I like it here. The Netherlands have, by and large, be good to me so far.

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